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Introduction
By Linda Arndt

In 1990, I approached several dog food companies with the results of the National Bone Survey which in the end involved over 5200 cases of veterinarian diagnoised Developmental Orthopedic Diseases (HOD, OCD and Pano). Based on the the information gleaned from the survey, I asked them to look at the data turned in regarding nutritionally caused bone diseases in the giant breeds. It was very obvious some company needed to develop a high quality premium food with moderate protein and caloric density in order to slow down the growth process for the first year of development. Most companies were not interested in looking at the results of the "Bone Survey". It was a "dead-end" everywhere I turned.

One day I received a call from one of the owners of EaglePack Pet Products, Inc. He said he was interested in taking a look at the data from this National Survey. I met with the owner, Mr. Joe Cocquyt and Mr. John Marsman, half way between us in a Denny's restaurant in Kokomo, Indiana. Mr. Cocquyt was very interested in what breeders were reporting to the survey and he felt they could be of assistance. It was a very educational meeting and, a few weeks later, I spent a day with Mr. Cocquyt and Mr. Marsman at the Eagle Pet Food plant, where the, so graciously, answered all my questions and agreed to let me put the interview into print. I am sure the readers will find the discussion, regarding the pet food industry and the "Eagle" philosophy quite educational. The interview was held in 1991.

The following is Part 1 of a conversation with Joe Cocquyt, an owner and Export Manager of Eagle Pet Products, Inc.; John Marsman, Marketing Director of Eagle Pet Products, Inc., professional breeder and past AKC judge; and Linda Arndt, noted Author, Nutritional Consultant and owner of Blackwatch Great Dane Kennels.

Q:Linda: First, let me say how much I appreciate you taking a whole day out of your schedule just to discuss the bone survey results and the concerns of the breeders across the country. I can not tell you how much it means to have someone in the pet industry treat breeders with some respect for a change. From what I understand, Eagle Pet Products, Inc. was the first one to develop a complete line of extruded pet foods with no soy and high caloric features, is that so?

A:Joe: Yes, we began developing these types of products in 1970. These were our Hy-Ration products. They were low protein, low fat diets. The reason we began marketing those types of diets is we saw benefits that were associated with the complete nutrition of the animal. We found when we stopped incorporating soy in the diet, we got more performance on the animal. The characteristics of feeding the animal improved on a subjective basis.

Q:Linda: I noticed your literature states you formulate the "Eagle Pack" product to meet the requirements of the animal "based on breed, environment and activity". How do you go about doing that?

A:Joe: Long before we make a product available to the market, we design a product for a specific application. Then we do a field evaluation that takes anywhere from a year and half to two years, trying to identify characteristics in the food that we think should occur. One should be the physical condition of the animal, that we don't compromise that quality. We are trying to reduce the amount of protein you have to feed your animal through a multiple protein source product (meat, chicken and fish base). What we recommend to people that are switching from another brand of food … let's say in a 30% protein … that you use a step down in Eagle Pet Products. Our product tests have shown us that we can do a lot more with our lesser percentage protein products due to the extreme care we take in the source and quality of proteins used in the Eagle Products; meaning higher digestibility.

Q:Linda: Yes, I have seen this evidence in the last year of running my own tests on Eagle Pet Products. I was using another brand of maintenance food at 26% protein, 15% fat and switched some of my adults to the Eagle Pack Maintenance at 20% protein, 12% fat. Not only did I get better results in coat, color and condition, but also the muscle tone in the animals was much harder and defined - not a soft mushy muscle. I was amazed to see the calorie count was comparable to the old brand and the amount I had to feed was less. In fact, I am maintaining my two older bitches (5 and 6 years old {145 pounds and 158 pounds}) on 4-5 cups per day as opposed to 6-7 cups. These are fairly active old gals, too. Their vitality - that was the biggest shock.

A:Joe: If you look at the information that we have determined, we actually have a higher digestibility on our 20% protein than other products have at 30%. This is due because of our highest quality of protein and the kind of carbohydrates (rice) we have chosen to incorporate into the product. By introducing a number of sources (3) of protein (meat, chicken and fish), Eagle Pack is able to get these terrific results.

Q:Linda: Earlier this morning, when we went through the plant, I asked you about your thoughts on the necessity for specific breeds to be fed certain foodstuffs depending on where the breeds originate - for example, dogs from the Northern climates needing things different from dogs originating from Africa. I have often wondered, Danes being Boar Hounds, might they do better with a food that was pork based.

Can we talk about the "myths" regarding the value of pork as a protein source? I know that this might be an issue for some people that do not understand that lean pork has more of the essential amino acids than does other meat protein sources. Let's face it, it is just a fact that the beef industry has "done a job" on the general public over the years in devaluing lean pork in terms of its nutritional contribution.

A:Joe: Let's talk about why Eagle Pack uses pork in their dog food. We spent 8 years developing the Eagle Pack Products. We tried and evaluated every type of meat protein available to the industry; beef, pork, lamb, chicken, etc. We even tried and evaluated some types of vegetable protein products other than soy.

What we found when we used all pure pork protein, the benefits were far above the rest. We had no preconceived ideas about what protein source we were going to use before we did the evaluations. But after the evaluations, it was pork - first it was abundantly available, so it was relatively inexpensive; it was a high source of quality protein; and it is more digestible than beef and easier on an animal's system. When the animal processes it, he receives more nutritional benefits from it.

Q:Linda: When I saw the industry chart on nutritional break down of protein sources, I was surprised to see the amino acid break down - is it that pork had more of the essential amino acids or was it that pork has a more complete amino acid profile? Most people don't realize how important those are because amino acids are the building blocks of muscle and tissue for animals and humans.

A:Joe: It is not that pork is more complete, it is that pork has more of the essential amino acids, which are the most important. This is what is referred to in the industry as "First Limiting". This means if you don't have a particular essential component, it doesn't matter what else you have; and in amino acids, more essential is methionine. If you do not have enough methionine, it isn't going to work.

Q:Linda: Do these amino acids have to work in concert with one another?

A:Joe: Yes, that is the essence of what you are trying to do - to lay the foundation so you can build the building. There is not enough availability of complete essential acid in one particular ingredient (with the exception of pure blood meal), therefore, it is important to use a variety of protein sources; that is why we use three.

Q:Linda: Now in order for a dog in the wild to get the necessary amount of the amino acid, methionine, in the diet, this would primarily come through the source of blood from the prey?

A:Joe: Yes, the first thing the dog would do is eat the viscera, the entrails and specifically the organs. When they kill something, it stops the blood flow and it concentrates in the organs and the heart. Now, when an animal is for human consumption, they bleed the animal first. In the wild the animal goes for the area of the prey that has the essentials - the concentrations of minerals, vitamins and all your enzymatic qualities related to proper digestion - they are all concentrated in the area of the organs. That is why they don't go for the hair or feathers.

Q:Linda: Those enzymatics (enzymes for digestion), that is an issue I am researching now along with probiotics (also called micro-organisms), because I feel this is a critical area that we overlook in regard to bloat and torsion.

A:Joe: Yes, both of these areas are important to us, and we address this in our product line by the incorporation of "friendly bacteria" (probiotics) and digestive enzymes.

Q:Linda: Besides an animal's overall condition, there are many things important to the owner or breeder, some in terms of ingredients, some in terms or specific benefits or results in the dog. First: how do you formulate a food for overall condition?

A:Joe: Again, by first insuring that there is an abundance of quality essential amino acids introduced through a tri-protein based food.

Q:Linda: How about for coat and skin condition?

A:Joe: We know that there are assigned values to certain key components. There are "nutrient profile characteristics" that you need. So what we do is specifically buy the highest quality ingredients that, again, have an abundance of those essential characteristics. This will insure we get good coats and healthy skin. Because if I go to Alaska and a guy determines that he is going to use a particular dog on his sled team or not, he knows what he is looking at - skin and coat condition. If they do not have good skin and coat, he has already determined from his previous experiences that the animal cannot function properly. The external manifestation of the animal's health is reflective in the skin and coat.

Q:Linda: It is what we refer to as that "bloom". Sometimes when I am at a dog show, I play this little game - called "Guess what brand of food that animal is fed". After many years, I have a pretty high success rate of guessing the correct brand name, just by looking at the coat, skin, pigment around the eyes, nose, mouth and anal area. It proves to be very revealing when I ask the owner what they feed their animals.

A:Joe: Let me relate to you a story. This happened in 1987 when I went to the Westminster Dog Show. One of our distributors happens to own a Portuguese Water Dog. Since she has been feeding our food, she had been doing extremely well in the show ring. Now, at that time, I was not familiar with the Portuguese Water Dog, but I was walking around the concourse at Westminster and I happened to sit 50-60 rows away from the ring where this breed was being shown. We were sitting there watching and I noticed there was one animal in the ring that was demonstrating better in external physical appearance, "bloom" as you say. He placed third that day and while most people go to congratulate the winner, exhibitors were approaching this owner, inquiring about the dog's physical condition and what food he was being fed. I walked up late and talked to the gentlemen and then found out that he fed our Eagle Pack feed - I picked out the animal from several rows back!

Q:Linda: There are 5 different foods fed to these animals, that I can spot from a distance and the majority of the time I am correct, based on specific physical characteristics produced by these particular foods.

A:Joe: What we try to do is to have a comprehensive ingredient structure so that we can address what is best for the overall nutrition of the animal, not just coat.

Q:Linda: How do you formulate foods specifically for reduced skin allergies?

A:Joe: We incorporate higher levels of linoleic acid and things such as fish oils (source of Omega-3) - things that specifically address that particular problem, as long as it is not overall, detrimental to the health of the animal. Our objective is to do the best job that we can in feeding the animal.

Q:Linda: There are only a couple of companies that incorporate Vitamin C in their diets. When I asked one of the companies about the use of Vitamin C in their products, their nutritionists told me it was not really necessary, dogs make their own Vitamin C. How many times have we heard that? Now, I know Eagle Pet Products, Inc. has taken a definite stand on the necessity for Vitamin C in the animal's diet. Would you care to explain your philosophy on the Vitamin C issue?

A:Joe: Yes, definitely, we feel it is an important part of the diet. There are specific things that we want to accomplish in our diets. When we originally structured our diets, we wanted to test them in the maximum stress environment. In our opinion, that would be the environment of a sled dog. The distance running sled dog, like the Iditarod sled dog, runs approximately 100 miles a day.

One of the benefits that you get by incorporating Vitamin C is a tighter paw; thus, if the animal exposes less of the paw surface each time he puts it down, he has less of an opportunity to injure it and the interior parts around the pads. He is, also, less likely to accumulate snow and ice balls in the area between the pads; thus, we have found one of the things we get when we incorporate Vitamin C in the diet - the benefits of a tighter paw.

Q:Linda: Does that mean that the mushers have to use fewer boots on their animals?

A:Joe: Yes, we had a guy's team run Iditarod on only 500 boots, while usually people will use 1,500-3,000. It can be done through breeding and conditioning too, but it can also be done through sound nutrition and the incorporation of Vitamin C.

Q:Linda: You choose to incorporate some exclusive ingredient in the feeds, such as the reasons for your use of things like kelp?

A:Joe: One of the things we found when we spent years researching the market before this product, was that people were going into pet stores, getting $30 worth of food and then adding additional supplements to that food. One of the things that people wanted in their feed was kelp. We incorporate kelp because of its enzymatic qualities that help in coat development, and help maintain fertility in animals.

Q:Linda: Yogurt cultures or "friendly" bacteria (probiotics), in humans and in animals are important in maintaining a healthy gut and help to reduce gases which could, in my opinion, help in the reduction of bloat/torsion. Research in agriculture and in humans supports this idea. However, you are only one of two companies that feel these "good" digestive bacteria's are essential in the diet. What do you use and why?

A:Joe: We looked at what a veterinarian recommends when an animal is having intestinal problems. There are several things: one is to feed a bland diet often incorporating rice and yogurt to soothe the stomach. Thus, we began to look at why they worked and found that the yogurt and its "friendly" bacteria helped to correct the intestinal problem and restore it to normal health. We then began to address the issue of incorporating these live cultures found in yogurt into our feeds.

Q:Linda: You use lactobacillus acidophilus, which are found in yogurt as well as other things, what are they?

A:Joe: We also use enterococcus facium, which is used extensively in animal husbandry. One of the things that it has been found to do, and why it was introduced into our diet, was to help control and eliminate stress conditions in the gut - for example, in the show ring, sled racing and/or field trials. The way stress manifests itself for an animal is to have a loose stool; sometimes this produces a loose, bloody stool and this is the deterioration of the lining of the intestines due to the stress. Therefore, we have to stop this breakdown. How can we help to stop this condition from developing? Well, we found by adding lactobacillus cultures, we can address a portion of that, and by the use of enterococcus facium, we can help to control the diarrhea.

Then, we had to develop a process so these cultures were available to the animal (they are heat sensitive). It took a great deal of time and capital to insure that we had a system in which we could incorporate these types of products in our feeds for the animal to receive their benefits.

Q:Linda: As a breeder of the giants, I feel this is so essential in helping to reduce the incidence of bloat and torsion. This is closer to the natural way in which an animal eats, since these bacteria are found in the viscera they would normally get in a wild kill. You have also introduced some other important cultures, producing digestive enzymes.

A:Joe: Yes, we incorporated bacillus subtillus and aspergillus oryzae into our diets. A lot of people were buying digestibility enhancers like K-Zyme. These digestive enzymes were built around the aspergillus oryzae fermentation solubles and the bacillus subtillus. We found we can introduce these into our diet, and what they do is improve the overall digestibility of the diet. Although it is only a small percent, the most important thing is that it helps to break down gases that may develop through incomplete digestion.

Q:Linda: Now I want to ask you about a very important question: That of minerals, or commonly called "trace minerals or micro-nutrients". These are so often overlooked - and most of all, by nutritionists and the pet food industry. There is definitely a difference in quality or bio-availability of a mineral. (What the animal can actually use); isn't that true? Would you explain the difference in grades of minerals used in the industry?

A:Joe: Yes, there are different forms: the oxide form, which is the most crude but the most stable. Then there is the refined or sulfate forms which have 98-100% utilization by the animal's system, but they are unstable. The difference is, unless you stabilize the sulfate forms, you cannot use them in the food formula.

Q:Linda: Why?

A:Joe: The activities of the minerals can be detrimental to the vitamin content. In other words, it is like the "Pac Man effect" - they, the minerals, will cannibalize the vitamins. What we had to do is find a system to be able to use the sulfates, which had 98-100% utilization to the animal, where the oxide may only have 50% availability to the animal. That is why we turned to use sequestered minerals. What the sequestering does is take the more useable sulfate form and encapsulate it. It is a protective coating that the only thing releasing the sulfate from the sequestered coating is the pancreatic acid released by the animal.

Q:Linda: So the animal can actually get greater value from the sequestered minerals than any other type because of that kind of delivery to the system?

A:Joe: This is correct. We are also assured, because of sequestering, that the sulfate forms have a greater shelf life in the food. A professional breeder will often purchase food in bulk - let's say 500 lbs. or more, primarily for a price break. What we have found in our market research was that breeders often purchased food to last them 30-60 days. The bad part of that is under normal circumstances, unless you stabilize the minerals, 19 days after manufacturing, you begin losing nutrient value. So if you have most food for 30-60 days, you do not get the vitamin and mineral value that was stated on the bag.

Q:Linda: That is why this processing of coating or sequestering the minerals is an insurance policy, in a way?

A:Joe: Yes, it is what I call an "absolute delivery system". We know we are introducing this much mineral value to the diet, and we know we are delivering an assimilation value of 98-100% to the animal's system.

Q:Linda: Tell me about the yucca schidigera extract (from the yucca plant) that is in the Eagle Pack foods. It seems to be something we have heard about quite a bit lately.

A:Joe: We have had it in our food since 1985 - we were 5 years ahead of the game. They extract the juice from the yucca plant, then dry the juice. The plant gives the benefit of helping control odors related to fecal and urinary emissions.

Q:Linda: Another thing that I have read about yucca is that it is beneficial for arthritis.

A:Joe: This may be true.

Q:Linda: To change the subject to something very important: what do you mean by tri-protein based foods … how do you formulate for this?

A:Joe: Essentially, it goes back to the amino acid structure we want to achieve. We can get a more favorable amino acid structure and control the amount of ash content by going to a tri-protein based food.

Q:Linda: I noticed one of the protein sources you choose to use is that of fish - why?

A:Joe: Well, the benefits have been known for some time in the animal feed industry, not the pet industry because it is expensive to use. But in the animal husbandry industry they have found positive growth benefits associated with incorporating fish meal into a diet. If you look at the amino acid profile, you will see that it becomes readily apparent that this is true.

The particular fish meals that we choose to use in the Eagle foods have enhanced our amino acid profile levels. For example, we can use chicken meal and fish meal, but if I introduce the same amount of fish meal as chicken meal, I double the availability of the critically important amino acid, lysine.

What we have also found, in our studies of feeding applications, is that the larger skeletal content of a fish does not have the benefits of fish meal, it has more of a flesh content. So we produce fish meal with more flesh content to increase the lysine and reduce the ash content, thus we have less fecal mass and more nutritional value.

Q:Linda: We talked about the idea that fish is an important part of the diet and particularly for the diet for the northern breeds. Would you like to speak about that issue?

A:Joe: What our thrust was as a company, was that we wanted to design feeds for a bigger dog, and the essential component of northern breeds diet was that of fish. We have already talked about the other benefits of fish meal - unidentified growth factors, then enhanced amino acid structure - and one of the things that we also noticed is that it is being proven, in human applications as well, that fish oil seems to enhance bodily organ functions. It is also, in the opinion of the sled dog people in Alaska, that it improved the overall performance of their dogs. Plus, there is some thought that it improves joint lubricity, more fluid around the joint, so that is why we use it. We feel it can help, possibly prevent or alleviate some arthritic conditions.

Q:Linda: You have been instrumental in working with several of the sled dog enthusiasts in Alaska and running feed trials—tell me about this.

A:Joe: Our feeling was, if we were going to introduce a product for the general consumer, that we want the most stringent evaluation that the food could be exposed to. We looked at the alternative applications: field trial, show ring and breeding. But the ultimate test was a 1,100 mile marathon race over an extended period of time. It has to be the perfect testing ground because you have a performance requirement, the animal has to be competitive and he has to be willing to run for several days for 15 hours a day.

Plus, the importance of effective food utilization - we couldn't have a sled dogger going down the trail carrying 150 lbs. of food - he had to have an effective means of feeding so he could carry a limited amount of food to reduce the overall sled weight. So that is why we went there: to develop and then incorporate a number of features in our product. One being the performance aspect, and the other being a reduced consumption for high performance.

Q:Linda: Did you directly sponsor any teams?

A:Joe: We, as a company, did not sponsor any teams in 1989. Yet, in 1989, 22 of the 49 teams chose to run their dogs on our food.

Q:Linda: This was by their own choice, no financial backing from Eagle Pet Products! That is very interesting and it says a lot. They understood the quality of the product in relation to the kind of performance they would achieve.

A:Joe: Yes, by their choice. They feed the Eagle Pack foods and paid for it out of their own pocket. They were chasing a $250,000 purse, but they made an independent decision to run this performance race and to choose Eagle Pack as their best bet to win the race. It is a tremendous voice of confidence.

I have to look at it another way. 5 racers only used the next commonly used food. Two of those were sponsored by our competitors (they provided the food for the mushers). If we had 22 teams, and the next level was only 5, a lot of people had tremendous confidence in the Eagle Pack foods.

One of the things that would somewhat affect the decision-making process was the cost of the food. We are less expensive, but 22 people did not make that decision based on cost, but on performance aspects.

Q:Linda: You must feel very good about the results and the numbers that have confidence in Eagle Pet Products, Inc. What is the picture like for this year?

A:Joe: This year we are being faced with an unusual situation. Other companies are becoming involved and are providing the mushers with free food, prize money and money for just finishing the race. Although we are losing some of the people because of these incentives, overall, I think we will pick up others and Eagle will still be the food of choice for over 50% of the teams in the Iditarod.

Q:Linda: So what you're saying is, through financial incentives, your competitors have made it unattractive to feed Eagle Pack for the race; but so many choose to feed it regardless of the fact that you are not putting any money up to promote the product. Plus, you got out of it what you wanted in terms of feed trials and research information.

A:Joe: That is exactly correct. That is primarily what we went after. In 1989, of the 22 teams that fed Eagle, we had 11 teams finish in the top 20. The food obviously did the job.

Q:Linda: And obviously your competitors are concerned. One of the hot issues right now among breeders is the use of artificial preservatives in the foods. That is not an issue that will go away as suggested by some of the competitors. I know several years ago that Eagle chose to take a firm stand against the use of the preservative ethoxyquin - this was rather visionary on your part, especially in light of the current attitudes of the majority of your competitors. What is Eagle's position on the use of the preservative, ethoxyquin?

A:Joe: Our position on preservatives, regardless of it being ethoxyquin or BHT, is that we want to incorporate as little preservative as possible into the food. The ultimate decision on ethoxyquin was made in early 1986. We looked at the levels of incorporation to accomplish a "given end" - to stabilize the ingredients that tend to become rancid. We found that we had to use less ethoxyquin than any other preservative to accomplish the same task. Well, some people would say that was a positive aspect … except that it was stronger so we could use less.

But the big issue was, what are the known consequences of the use of ethoxyquin on a continued basis?--this is an unknown. We found the use in dog food was not on the manufacturers "suggested use of the chemicals". We chose not to use it based on its use when originally introduced into the market. Because we chose not to use it, we had to figure out a way to formulate our product to incorporate an ingredient that had more human application, and still use it at the lowest levels to accomplish the task necessary of preserving the fats. What that entailed, on our part, was making a judicious choice of ingredient alternatives to stabilize fats. We found that through a selection of fats and a blending of certain fats, we could lower still the amount of preservative.

Q:Linda: You have your own rendering plant. Are you the only one that does?

A:Joe: Yes. There are two types of rendering plants: a continuous-process type and batch-process type. We have a batch process plant so we can produce smaller batches and, although it is more expensive to do it this way, we can customize the process and extract and select out the fats we want to use. We can sort out and blend them to meet our specific needs.

Q:Linda: Ah, designer fats?

A:Joe: Yes, exactly. And by doing so we can control the amount or type of preservatives. Our basic philosophy at Eagle Pet Products is, we do not want to introduce anything into our feeds that is not naturally appearing. We do not like to introduce manufactured components at all. That is why we use a lot of meat meal in a tri-protein based food.

For example: we see so many competitors far too concerned with stool size (as if that were the real indication of the digestibility of the food, which it is not). So what they do is, they strip the calcium and phosphorus from the meat or protein sources and then they add back with a process manufactured product with a lower ash content that manifests itself in a smaller stool.

Q:Linda: Yes, and so many times they incorporate lesser quality micro-nutrients or synthetics, or fractionated elements because it is cheaper. But in the end, the animal is the one that suffers because the nutrients are less available for the animal's system to utilize.

A:Joe: Yes, this is a problem. When we evaluated diets, we found that we got enhanced performance in the animal's feed from whole food sources of meat and bone meals, rather than if we introduced it into a supplemental manufactured form.

Q:Linda: Let's talk more about the issue of low volume stool versus high volume. The breeder/consumer has been duped, by the commercial dog food companies and their marketing departments, into thinking that a low-volume stool is of utmost importance. Obviously, this is a desirable characteristic when you have to clean up a yard or kennel (particularly in giant breeds).

But I have also noticed, over the years, that some of the very concentrated high caloric/high fat foods are difficult for the animal to pass. Plus, as we discussed earlier, a small stool is not necessarily an indication that the food is highly digestible. One of the things that I think is important is to re-educate the public regarding this issue.

A:Joe: The way Eagle Pet Products addresses that is this: On the bag it states, "dog food". We are selling "dog food" not "dog fecal matter". The predominant message on the bag is that we are trying to feed your dog. We, as a company, approach it in a way that we have to feed your dog right first. If we get a small stool in the process, that is great ... but that is not the most important issue. A lot of people in our industry, a lot of breeders or users are oriented in the wrong way. They are more concerned about what is on that ground than what is in the dog, or the value the animal has extracted from the foods.

Q:Linda: Again, because of using whole foods as a source of nutrients and not going to lesser quality fractionated food sources, you might have a larger stool; however more nutritious food-correct?

A:Joe: Yes, our first thought is to feed the animal properly, to provide complete quality nutrition - therefore we probably do not have the smallest stool.

Q:Linda: Isn't there methods of "faking" a smaller stool?

A:Joe: Yes, you can incorporate lower levels of fiber; the bottom line is that this is like everything else in life - there is compromise - and we have chosen to maintain the high nutritional value of the food in lieu of a smaller stool. There is such a reduction in consumption of food, that the actual stool volume weight over a 30-day period is actually less than our competitors on an overall basis. We also take into consideration the odor by the incorporation of our yucca schidigera product, which helps to neutralize odors ...